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XD-V70L Dropouts
by djronh1 on 2011-06-07 10:23:00

Hi All,

I've recently switched to all Line 6. I was previously all Shure PGX.

Currently, I have (2) XD-V70, (2) XD-V70L & (1) Relay G50.

I use these for my DJ business. Doing primarily weddings.

My wedding ceremony setup features the (2) XD-V70L (one for officiant, and 2nd for groom), and I have also started using the Relay G50 receiver

(with the handheld from one of my XD-V70) for any readers.

I have both receivers rackmounted in a 1U space, with antenna rack mounted above

receivers. With one set of antennas for both receivers, properly daisy chained w/ terminator (as per info in manual).

The G50 sits on top of my case.

Problem I'm having is that although I can complete my sound checks fine (with NO issues), during the ceremony

one (or both) of the XD-V70L transmitters with start having dropouts.

Symptoms are: Sound will just cut in/out. The LED readout on a receiver will go from all green, to all red, to nothing in less than a second.

Then return to all green again. I have had same thing from either transmitter to their respective receiver, but don't recall every having them

both cut out simutaneously.

Ceremonies typically run 10 - 30 minutes, and issue appears to start anytime from 5 minutes on.

I do all my usual surveying beforehand. Confirming line of site. Obviously giving each mic it's own channel.

I make sure wifi on my laptop is off, and make sure to put my cell phone in airplane mode.

The case is an SKB case.

Other items in case are:

(1) Whirlwind Mix-5S Mic Mixer

(1) Cortex MIX-1RU Line Mixer

(1) Furman Power Conditioner

(1) Behringer Feedback Destroyer (curently shut-off & hasn't been used in months)

Ideas/Suggestions/Possible Fixes?



Re: XD-V70L Dropouts
by boswell2007 on 2011-06-08 05:57:03

Which LED readout, left , right or middle ??



Re: XD-V70L Dropouts
by dboomer on 2011-06-08 09:45:07

Did you take a look at the "troubleshooting" section of the FAQ?  http://line6.com/community/docs/DOC-1957

Have you tried switching the channels so that the beltpacks use the other receivers?  That would rule out the receivers?

What range are we talking about?  Indoors?  Outdoors?



Re: XD-V70L Dropouts
by djronh1 on 2011-06-08 11:31:43

boswell2007 wrote:

Which LED readout, left , right or middle ??

All three  Audio, Battery & RF.



Re: XD-V70L Dropouts
by djronh1 on 2011-06-08 11:55:27

dboomer wrote:

Did you take a look at the "troubleshooting" section of the FAQ?  http://line6.com/community/docs/DOC-1957

Have you tried switching the channels so that the beltpacks use the other receivers?  That would rule out the receivers?

What range are we talking about?  Indoors?  Outdoors?

Yes, I did read FAQ.  Reagrding the drop outs questions (in FAQ), here are my responses to those specifically.

  1. Do I have clear line of sight?  YES
  2. The transmitter antenna should be able to “see” the receiver’s antennas. Is your audience blocking the line of sight?  Since these are lavs, used at a wedding ceremony, the actual transmitters are typically under a sport coat or jacket of groom, and under officiant's gown.
  3. Raising antennas to 6-8 feet high will often fix this problem. Make sure you are not being blocked by obstacles such as metal posts, walls, etc. My case is usually atop a standard buffet table, thus elevating to 6-8 feet is not an option. Although I have tried to order the directional paddle antennas, but they are currently out-of-stock every where. Is an alternative available?
  4. Are your antennas connected firmly and splayed at 90 degrees? If they are straight up and down you could fall victim to a dead zone.  By this, does it mean, one pointing left & other pointing right (if I have them rack mounted)? Mine are pointed in same direction as pic here http://line6.com/xd-v/  except they're rackmounted in front.
  5. Are other XD-Vs operating on the same channel? Each system needs its own unique channel to operate on.  This tip falls into the "duh" category.
  6. Do you have the receiver’s antennas near any intentional transmitters such as walkie-talkies, In-Ear Monitors, etc? They will need to be separated. No.
  7. The distance will depend on the strength of the transmitter and the gain of the transmitting antenna.
  8. Are you using the factory power supply? Yes, factory AC adapter. If you are using a substitute supply you must make certain it can supply the required 9vdc at 350 ma.
Have you tried switching the channels so that the beltpacks use the other receivers? 

No. But have used the handheld from my XD-V70, and problem (drop-outs) does not appear to happen.

What range are we talking about?  Indoors?  Outdoors?

Anywhere from 50 - 150 ft. All Outdoor (thus far).



Re: XD-V70L Dropouts
by dboomer on 2011-06-08 13:09:31

All three would not be from an RF dropout.  It sounds more like either the transmitter or the receiver is losing its power supply.

Does the LCD screen remain lit while the LEDs drop off?

My first guess would be that the transmitters have lost power.  You could try switching batteries.  They may not be seated or there may be a size issue??  Are you using rechargables?



Re: XD-V70L Dropouts
by dboomer on 2011-06-08 13:22:02

#2 ... clothing should be much of an issue ... unless it is metallic.

#3 Line 6 antennas will be back in stock end of June.  Almost any 2.4G antenna can be substituted.  You just need to pay attention to connections, gain and pattern control to fit your needs.  Alternately, you could extend one or both rubber duckie antennas with a 5-10' cable and fix it to a mic stand (or other).  Should be fine as long as you keep the cable under 10'.

#4 take a look at our antenna guide  http://l6c.scdn.line6.net/data/l/0a06434d162524dcad0a0c6112/application/pdf/XD-V70%20Antenna%20Setup%20%28Rev%20C%29%20-%20English.pdf

#5 It may seem as a "duh" question.  But because XD-V's channel lock you can use the same channel twice at very close distances.  I have done it at less than 8 feet apart, so it's easy enough to not realize that you have two on the same channel.  It is one of those "I just gotta ask" question however.



Re: XD-V70L Dropouts
by djronh1 on 2011-06-08 13:52:40

dboomer wrote:

All three would not be from an RF dropout.  It sounds more like either the transmitter or the receiver is losing its power supply.

Does the LCD screen remain lit while the LEDs drop off?

My first guess would be that the transmitters have lost power.  You could try switching batteries.  They may not be seated or there may be a size issue??  Are you using rechargables?

I'm pretty sure LCD remains on when LEDs go from green, to red, to off, then back to green.

Not using rechargeable, using regular alkaline.

Since issue happens to both transmitters, what is possbilty they both have power supply issues?



Re: XD-V70L Dropouts
by dboomer on 2011-06-09 10:22:36

It is possible that you have hardware issues with the transmitters.  But her's the part that is puzzling ... I can understand the RF and Audio LEDs going off or red from a dropout, but the battery indication would only go off if the transmitter was shutting off.  It would not be affected by dropouts.

Are you certain that the battery LEDs are going off?



Re: XD-V70L Dropouts
by djronh1 on 2011-06-09 10:46:34

dboomer wrote:

It is possible that you have hardware issues with the transmitters.  But her's the part that is puzzling ... I can understand the RF and Audio LEDs going off or red from a dropout, but the battery indication would only go off if the transmitter was shutting off.  It would not be affected by dropouts.

Are you certain that the battery LEDs are going off?

Yes, I agree that behavior (of battery LED going off as well) is strange, but that is indeed happening.

Again, they shut off for anywhere from a split second, to a few seconds.  Similar to what you get when you first turn receiver on.

So it's sounding more & more that my transmitters may be defective.

Both of them .... which is also bizarre, unless they are from same manufacturing "run".



Re: RE: XD-V70L Dropouts
by Kneehow on 2011-06-09 10:51:03

Please give our Service Department a call at: 818-575-3600 (8AM-5PM Pacific Standard Time, Monday-Fridays). Select the Service Department queue and reference your Username (djronh1) when your call is taken. They can assist. If you select the "Support" queue, your hold time will greatly increase, since our side of the queue is setup to troubleshoot and help customer with setup/usage of their gear. The Service queue handles less phone traffic, so please make a note of the queue options when calling.

Also, please complete your account info (namely your shipping address info) first, to speed things up: http://line6.com/account/



Re: XD-V70L Dropouts
by djronh1 on 2011-06-20 08:44:55

dboomer wrote:

It is possible that you have hardware issues with the transmitters.  But her's the part that is puzzling ... I can understand the RF and Audio LEDs going off or red from a dropout, but the battery indication would only go off if the transmitter was shutting off.  It would not be affected by dropouts.

Are you certain that the battery LEDs are going off?

After rethinking this, it makes perfect sense that RF issues would also affect battery meter (on receiver).

Since if the transmitter has RF issues, and thus does NOT have a good signal back to receiver, it wouldn't be able to relay battery status either.  Right?

Anyway, I got the return info & UPS tag from Line 6 support, but after speaking with them, it appears that turnaround time may be up to a month!

Unforunately, I'm in the middle of my wedding season, and being without my lavs (even with their current issues) for that much time is unacceptable.  I guess I'm going to have to limp along for now.  Stinks.

I had been an avid Line 6 cheerleader until this issue; with not just one, but both of my lavs.

I just had a collegue looking for advise on switching his lavs to Line 6.

But until I get my issue resolved, I'm hesitant to recommend he make the switch.



Re: XD-V70L Dropouts
by dboomer on 2011-06-20 17:17:27

I may have another answer for you.  Please email me directly ... dboomer@line6.com



Re: XD-V70L Dropouts
by DanCornett on 2011-07-21 20:03:19

Another low-tech option to consider (a bit lagging in time, having been away for a while):

You might put a thick rubber band (e.g. one of those about  1/4" to 1/3" wide) around the bodypack to hold the door tightly shut even if the "door latch" gets momentarily touched.

I had the batteries fall out completely once when the speaker pushed the door latch (instead of the mute) without looking.  Another time the door opened, then was pushed back shut immediately, but didn't quite latch tightly.  The rubber band has eliminated those issues completely for 'novice' users.



Re: RE: XD-V70L Dropouts
by ronfolse on 2012-05-16 13:37:42

djronh1... I am having the EXACT same problem with my TBP12 in the EXACT same usage... for ceremonies at weddings.  My handheld does NOT experience dropouts in the EXACT same locations.  Please advise as to what your FIX was, so I can follow suit.  Thanks, Top DJ... Ron Folse, Louisiana



Re: XD-V70L Dropouts
by ronfolse on 2012-05-16 13:47:08

dboomer... Can you help me with this EXACT same problem that djhronh1 had?



Re: XD-V70L Dropouts
by RonMarton on 2012-05-16 17:48:29

Greetings from Down Under, O Esteemed Namesakes...

Given that the THH12 handhelds are far less prone to the problem, I'm surmising that this issue largely arises from the less favourable transmitting antenna location that, regrettably, must attend the use of bodypacks.

My two cents worth stems from the repeated torture endured by my TBP12's, in that I regularly attach them to (often soaking wet) rugby referees for match-long PA coverage right up to (and sometimes far in excess of, using P180 paddles and my XD-V70's quad-diversity RF1 frequencies) their quoted 300 foot maximum range.

In my case, Dan Cornett's excellent "wide rubber band" tip for holding the battery door closed is obviated by first wrapping the entire bodypack transmitter in a nitrile rubber disposable glove, (a small hole in a convenient "finger" being cut for the mic cable) then squeezing it into one of these really cheap but truly excellent carrier belts:

http://www.amazon.com/Tune-Belt-Vertical-Microphone-Transmitter/dp/B001S3283K/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1337208827&sr=8-3

Though some marriages may be indeed prove to be gruesome, I wouldn't expect your application to need the rubber gloves, ...but, having first tried these belts for referees, I now find them far quicker to "click fit" under formal wear than the transmitter alone, so I've taken to using them for all sorts of commercial and presentation work.

As I'm sure you've found, fashion dictates that belts be worn increasingly less often and (aside from actually providing a mounting point) the design of those I mention allows open and easy access to the on/off and mute switches, with the TBP12's excellent dual push-button "Lock/Unlock" function easy to "braille-squeeze" operate through the neoprene wall of the pouch, given that each transmitter's "state" is eminently visible at the front-panel of the relevant receiver.

Most importantly in the light of this conversation, these Tune belts (in common with any similar pouch) enable a body-absorbtion-negating "trick" (exclusive to Line 6 TBP's, as far as I know) for the transmitting antenna that really does help increase the range before the dreaded RF dropouts occur.

This involves using your multi-tool's (or any other) Philips head screwdriver to turn Line 6's ingenious wedge-shaped clip "upside down", whereupon it can easily be positioned to act as a "spacer" that makes the antenna "stand off" from the body when the whole unit is in the pouch, given that a much more secure attachment is now being derived from the carrier belt rather than the bodypack's clip itself.

Aside from being lightning fast to fit comfortably and RF transparent, the belt's neoprene wetsuit material also provides a valuable buffer against sweat and body-induced capacitive attenuation of RF, as well as being really handy for attaching PVC electrical tape to "pre-pack" label each transmitter, be it by colour-code, by being written on with permanent marker, or both.

For best moisture tolerance, the PVC tape needs to be wrapped right around the neoprene and stuck to itself.

(I've also spent a few, very few, extra bucks to carry a couple of these http://www.amazon.com/Tune-Belt-SW-Extender/dp/B003FO0GAW/ref=pd_cp_e_3 for what the airlines call "C.O.S", being "Customers/Clients Of Size".)

I keep them (the belts, not necessarily the clients) fresh by washing them, quite separately from any other clothing.

Like my wetsuit, the Tune belts (being of the same material) have happily and frequently survived a gentle detergent (no bleach, colour enhancer or whitening agent) and the "Wool" cycle of my washing machine, wherupon both drip dry really quickly.

Unlike the clients, ...some of whom may themselves be "drips".



Re: XD-V70L Dropouts
by ronfolse on 2012-05-16 18:12:14

Hi RonMarton... I really appreciate your contribution of information concerning the use of the TBP12.  However, my situation is definitely not caused my the mute button.  For since I've been experiencing the rather embarrasing dropout moments while a ceremony is in progress, I recently tested the unit myself... before a ceremony... carefully holding the transmitter in my hand... with no possible way to inadvertently press the mute button.  After experiencing the same dropout situation, as usual, and as I moved around, I then grabbed my handheld and did the same movmements.  The handheld had NO dropouts.  Needless to say, I did NOT use the TBP12.  It is definitely unusable for any event at this time...



Re: XD-V70L Dropouts
by ronfolse on 2012-05-16 18:37:18

RonMartin... I did just look at my beltpak transmitter, and the battery cover does not close properly, as you noted in your previous posting.  However, in pressing on the battery cover to move it in and out, etc., I see no loss of power on the LCD screen.  So, I doubt that the battery cover is the culprit.  Thanks... Ron Folse



Re: XD-V70L Dropouts
by RonMarton on 2012-05-16 19:02:31

I never intended to imply that the "Mute" button was implicated in any way, Ron F...

...Just that (aside from ease of "dressing") the Tune Belts I'm using allow easy operation of all TBP12 options.

You'll appreciate that the very act of your THH12's transmitting antenna being held in free space (totally clear of the RF-attenuating "sack of seawater" that constitutes a human) is what has allowed succesful operation, ...despite what I believe you've now PROVEN to be the marginal reception afforded by the current disposition of your receiving antennae.

So, the convenience and RF assistance afforded to TBP12's by Tune Belts notwithstanding, it's apparent that you'll need to revise your receiving antenna arrangements, a need that will progressively become more urgent as more and more "stuff" becomes wireless.

First stop is Line 6's excellent guide to configuring a receiving antenna scheme for your venue/s, here :

http://line6.com/data/6/0a060b316ac34f05930ebd2e9/application/pdf/Line%206%20Guide%20to%20Antenna%20Setup%20-%20English%20(%20Rev%20C%20).pdf

Then here for LMR-195 cabling and cable-compensated paddle antennae:

https://www.globalfulfillment.net/gfsnet/(S(tnld0oqfhoyucv45gxxyge45))/line6/10Browse.aspx?cid=261

With correct reception arrangements, you'll soon enjoy (as I do) what I believe to be the matchless sound quality, freedom and flexibility afforded by Line 6's XD-V systems.

Incidentally, I've neither affiliation with, nor particular loyalty to, Line 6.

Feel free to click on my pink pic (at left) for background info and details of my rig.



Re: XD-V70L Dropouts
by dboomer on 2012-05-17 13:52:53

It is not untypical that the beltpacks have a slightly shorter range in practice than the handhelds.  This is usually caused because they are typically used a bit lower to the ground (so they typicall have more line of sight issues than the handhelds do) and when used up next to a body there is always a bit more loss of transmission power.

Are the RF green LEDs going out on the receiver when this happens?  Assuming nothing is broken, that means you are out of range according to the local conditions.

What I would suggest is raising up your receiver's antennas to about 6 to 8 feet above the deck.  That is easily done with the paddle antennas or you could add abut 6 feet of antenna cable and place the stock antennas up on a mic stand.  Even better would be to flash your systems with the new 2.0 firmware as there are some measurement tools included so you can actually measure what your antennas are doing.  Small movements in the antennas can make a very big difference in peformance.



Re: XD-V70L Dropouts
by ronfolse on 2012-05-18 05:25:10

RonMartin... My response from dboomer was similar to yours.  It does appear I need to restructure my antenna system.  However, after paying well over $500 for a Line 6 wireless system, I find the need to do more to have it work properly at around 50ft away and within line-of-site is quite unpalatable.  I noted that the P180 paddles are virtually unobtainable, so if I were to devise the recommended "ducky raising", what method have you found to mount the "duckies" to a standard screw-mount mic stand?  Also, what are the best cables to use, and where can they be found at a reasonable price (10 ft length seems optimal)?  As usual, thanks for your "down-under" assistance and expertise in the matter.  P.S.  I do like your Tune Belt "idea", as well... which I'm certain would be very useful for female wedding officiants that sometimes have no belts or pockets :-)



Re: XD-V70L Dropouts
by dboomer on 2012-05-18 11:06:05

photo.JPG

I just use the bulkhead connector (included with each system) and half of an old mic clip.

photo1.JPG

Connect the cable to one side and the antenna to the other.  Keep your cable under 10' and use LMR-195 cable,.



Re: XD-V70L Dropouts
by RonMarton on 2012-05-18 16:27:57

"Quite unpalatable" is a very polite way of putting it, Mr Folse !

"Livid" would be closer to where I'd be...

I just wish we'd been in touch, (or you'd been better advised) before your purchase.

Aaaanyway, ...no use crying over spilt signals.

The fact is that each location in the world of RF will interact with signal propagation and reception in its own unique way, so no radio mic system (not even the amazingly robust, digital spread-spectrum, four-frequency-diversity RF1 scheme of the XD-V's) can be unequivocally guaranteed to cover its maximum stated range.

However, the only testimony that I can personally (hand on heart) offer in this context ...is to say that I know of nothing that even comes close to matching Line 6's XD-V systems' performance per dollar ratio.

Now, down to business. In particular, the business of getting the maximum performance from your receiver/s for the minimum additional cost.

My reading "between the lines" has me thinking that your receiver/s may have been neatly installed in a location that "looked like" it should work really well.

What's implied in both Don Boomer's and my earlier advice is that subsequent RF performance seems to indicate that this "permanence" was premature, so a (probably inconvenient) reinstallation would seem to be required.

To this end, I'd suggest a "re-birthing" to yield a "re-berthing". (The decision of whether or not to mount an actual ceremony for this is entirely yours.)

  1. Give birth to a receiver from its rack, attach a pair of "rubber ducky" whip antennae (each angled 45 degrees outwards to form a notional "right angle" between them)  and power it via a mains lead long enough to reach a range of its possible future "homes";
  2. Now, in the absence of a willing human, you'll need to fabricate a "body-simulating crash test dummy". Use dry towels (or something similar) to centrally and vertically hold a switched-on beltpack inside a metal container with a wide open top, such as a trash can or ice bucket. This container will be your "human substitute" RF attenuator;
  3. Clip and/or tape the bodypack's lavalier to a drinking straw or ruler so that it can "stand up and be counted" into;
  4. Use a chair or lectern to complete this "crash test dummy" for placement at the "performance" location/s.

What we're trying to do is walk the receiver around in an attempt to find a new "home" that yields the highest number of green-lit segments in its right-hand "RF" column of LEDS.

Bear in mind that (in a permanent arrangement such as yours) access to the front panel controls will only be needed for initial set-up, so places such as high up (the maximium being with the front panel just reachable from the ground) inside a cupboard, wall-unit or wardrobe, even if on the "wrong side" of a timber wall, are quite OK, provided that any such barriers to line of sight are not also barriers to (or reflectors of) RF.

So no metal, plaster, brick or stone in the way. Plastic, timber and most synthetics are fine.

Ideally we'd like our "weird" location to yield a rock-solid, fully-lit column of green RF lights. This would mean that, subject to a more intensive "temporary long XL cable hooked-up" walk and talk test, the whip antennae won't need extending.

As you now say that we're only talking about a 50 foot range, I feel that this will almost certainly be the case.

However, in the unlikely event that a fully lit RF column cannot be obtained, the location with the highest reading will have to be the starting point for the trial to be repeated.

Only now we'd be leaving the receiver and "walking" the whip antennae around at the end of the very longest cables they can stand, being these:

https://www.globalfulfillment.net/gfsnet/(S(axswni2zj5hwdh55bvqzq3bu))/line6/10Expand.aspx?ProductCode=98-033-0016

Bear in mind that that they can be mounted "BNC connector up or down" and are light enough to be secured with things such as cable-ties or even duct tape.

It's just that they'll need to be permanently angled for best coverage, the easiest way to visualise this being to imagine this coverage as a giant apple, the apple core representing the orientation of the whip. The depression at the "apples's stem" defines the shape of the antenna's top RF dead spot, (or "suck-out") with the depression at the other end of the "apple's core" denoting its equivalent at the bottom. 

Painting over them and their fixings is also fine, provided care is taken to prevent any liquid contamination of their BNC's (first seal them with electrical tape) and only water soluble paints are applied.

If the supplied "through-connect" bulkhead mounts are too bulky, a standard BNC video "barrel" will do for connection.



Re: XD-V70L Dropouts
by dboomer on 2012-05-18 16:47:17

Ron's points about splaying the antennas is important as well as using the LEDs to show best reception.  The graphic in the LCD screen is actually RSSI and you gat get a good indication of how your antenna placement is from looking at them.

Also I should mention that you can turn on your receiver and check for the best channels to use while your transmitters are turned off.  If you see red LEDs on the RF ladder you should avoid using those channels and select those with little or no red LEDs showing.  Red LEDs indicate RF activity/interference on that channel.




The information above may not be current, and you should direct questions to the current forum or review the manual.